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Georgia gubernatorial candidate Vernon Jones ended his participation in a heated live interview with Stew Peters after the host questioned Jones’ stances on anti-white racism including Critical Race Theory. Jones, in turn, accused Peters of racism for using the phrase “jive talk.”

In the testy interview with radio host Stew Peters, Georgia gubernatorial candidate Vernon Jones left the interview after he was muted by Peters. The two were discussing a former lawsuit against Jones that alleged the candidate discriminated against white people while serving as the CEO of DeKalb County, Georgia. Prior to this discussion, Peters pressed Jones on Critical Race Theory.

When Peters asked why Jones chose not to vote on Georgia’s proposed 6-week abortion ban, Jones told Peters that the bill didn’t go far enough because he believes “life begins at conception.” Peters noted specific portions of the bill that many pro-life Georgians supported, and asked Jones why he did not propose any amendments. Jones said that the process of amending the bill was “complicated.”

Then the topic moved to Critical Race Theory. “You’re not going to come here and filibuster me Vernon,” Peters said at one point, suggesting Jones was dodging his question. Jones wants the Georgia legislature to ban the racist curriculum at the state level, while Peters suggests an executive order could be written immediately should Jones become the state’s next governor.

“Let me answer your question: I oppose Critical Race Theory,” Jones said, promising to ban it through legislation that would make it illegal in the state. Jones insinuated that believes an executive order could be legally challenged, or would be reversed by the next Democrat governor. At one point Jones suggested that Peters doesn’t understand the Georgia Constitution or the division of the state’s government powers.

As evidence that Jones may have been disingenuous with his answers on Critical Race Theory, Peters then referenced a court case from the early 2000s that alleged Jones discriminated against white employees and candidates while in charge of DeKalb County, Georgia as its CEO. Peters showed an article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution revealing that Jones was ordered to pay damages over the DeKalb discrimination suit.

Speaking to National File, Jones said Peters misreported the results of the lawsuit and repeatedly informed National File that the jury contained 11 white jurors despite being in 40% black Atlanta.

At the time, some expressed concern that the judge may have swayed the jury’s opinions: “With the jury out of the courtroom, [Judge Bill] Duffey denounced the county’s conduct in the case as ‘shameful’ and hinted he might throw out the verdict if the jury sided with the defendants,” reported AJC in 2010. Others have sympathized with the judge.

The jury ultimately found Jones responsible for creating a “hostile work environment” while serving as the DeKalb County CEO, but stopped short of declaring Jones guilty of committing anti-white discrimination. The jury did, however, find the county itself guilty of anti-white discrimination. While the plaintiffs were hoping for as much as $2 million, they were awarded less than $200,000. Jones told National File that he appealed the initial judgment against him and ultimately settled with the plaintiffs in an arrangement where Jones says he only paid their legal fees.

National File asked Peters about his understanding of the lawsuit. “I have never had to pay fines, attorney fees, or be sanctioned for something that I wasn’t guilty of,” said Peters.

Despite some confusion about the fate of the original video of the full interview, which contains only audio from Stew Peters, it appears Peters posted it publicly on the day of the interview. Peters says Jones’ continued outbursts led the host to keep the candidate muted for the last segment of the interview, and says that Jones’ audio was not recorded the final portion of the interview as a result.

This is why, explained Peters, the formal release of the interview was edited to exclude the final minutes. The original video, Peters added, was made available in the original Red Voice Media article featuring the interview, and was never concealed.

“You’re here with a bunch of foolishness,” Jones shot back to Peters during the interview, asking to talk about other issues. At one point, Peters questioned Jones on rumors suggesting he invites Christian, conservative women to his hotel room at major events.

Then, the two began to talk over each other. At some point, Peters muted Jones’ microphone so he could finish his point. Peters never restored Jones’ audio, he told National File, because Jones would not stop talking over him. However, the conversation continued for almost 10 minutes, which can be seen with Peters’ audio intact on his Rumble channel.

Around the time Peters muted Jones’ audio, he described Jones’ attempts to turn to other topics as “jive talk,” a phrase Jones described as racist. Peters told National File that he is not worried about accusations of racism that he considers baseless, as he already knows he is not a racist, and says the phrase is not racist either.

When National File asked Jones if anything important happened after his audio was muted, Jones eagerly replied that he repeatedly accused Peters of being a “bigot.” Jones had earlier called Peters a “liberal bigot in disguise” in a post made on Twitter.

“Stew Peters would not say to a white guest, you’re talking jive talk,” Jones explained to National File in a phone call Friday morning. “Jive talk is to talk in foolish, deceptive, or unserious ways.” Jones added, “It’s stereotyping. Stereotyping toward African Americans.”

By way of example, Jones said with a lackadaisical inflection to his voice, “Jive talk: You’re full of sh*t, yo, yo, brotha, what’s going on. Hey, brotha, where’s my gold ring?” Jones added, “All that bullsh*t. I don’t talk that jive talk like that.”

Peters, speaking to National File on Saturday, maintains that “jive talk” is not a racist expression, and that he used the phrase to describe what he said were deceptive remarks from Jones.

“It’s Vernon who is the racist.” Peters added, “I was just asking him questions that he refused to answer,” he said, before asking, “Any time you don’t want to answer a question, the person who asked it is a racist?” When speaking to National File, Jones repeatedly turned the conversation to racism in response to attempts to address questions raised by Peters.

“According to the dictionary, ‘jive’ is a noun that means to be glib, deceptive, or foolish,” said Peters. “He told me that I was talking foolish at one point, which is a synonym for jive, so is he participating in his racism again? Because we already know Vernon Jones hates white people.”

“He admitted in his conversation with me that he is a career politician who knows all the tricks and back doors,” Peters added, doubling down. “Vernon Jones is an anti-white parasite, he is a power hungry Democrat, and he is a slick, smooth, jive talker.”

The answer to whether racism is inherent to the phrase seems unclear. While Jones spoke of black exploitation and stereotypes, there is very little discussion on the topic that National File could find. However, a surprisingly thorough examination of a similar phrase, “shuck and jive,” was written in 2012 after Sarah Palin used it to describe President Barack Obama.

The Atlantic notes that “shuckin’ and jivin’” actually comes “from black slang” and means “lying” or sucking up to authority figures. The publication adds that “white people do use it innocently” and gives several examples, but notes that “whites have used it racially” to demean black people at the same time. National File was unable to find similar discussion specifically relating to the phrase “jive talk,” but it seems as though The Atlantic concludes the phrase is most likely not racist, unless the person using it is doing so with malicious intentions.

Peters told National File repeatedly that his intention was to describe Jones’ responses as duplicitous, but added that due to Jones’ response, he will make the phrase a regular part of his vocabulary when confronting guests he believes are attempting to dodge his questions, and discussed the idea of putting the phrase on a t-shirt. Peters said, “The Bee Gees had a song called ‘Jive Talkin’, are we gonna go cancel the Bee Gees now?”

Jones frequently a returned the topic of the conversation to his belief that Peters is racist when National File spoke to him on the phone.

When we asked Jones about allegations Peters raised regarding the rumors that Jones has repeatedly asked Christian, conservative women to visit his hotel room while at political events, with direct messages on Twitter reportedly serving as evidence, Jones said that he had no knowledge of these Twitter messages and suggested Peters did not approve of interracial dating.

“I am a straight, single man, and it sounds more like,” Jones explained, pausing, “Something bothers him about interracial dating.” Jones questioned, “Why would he inject color into dating?” Jones added, “But he says that I don’t like white people?”

When National File relayed Jones’ remarks to Peters, he questioned Jones’ character and dismissed the allegations. “Vernon Jones is the racist,” said Peters. “He fired white people in DeKalb County.”

“I don’t care what color their skin is, why are you trying to lure young, Christian, conservative girls into your hotel rooms at events run by taxpayers?” Peters asked Jones while speaking to National File, again telling National File that evidence exists dating from earlier this year. “What are you trying to conserve? These are the questions I was going to ask him,” said Peters.

“Liberal Democrats, progressive radicals, and communists always want to have it both ways, and if you notice, they never address the actual issues.” Peters then revealed a specific allegation against Jones: “Has Vernon Jones answered to his threesome where it is alleged a goat was also present?”

While speaking to Jones, National File noted that some, including Peters, have challenged Jones’ bona fides as a Republican. Jones was a Democrat for decades of his political career until announcing he had changed his party affiliation to Republican on January 6, 2021.

Jones told National File that he not only endorsed President Donald Trump in 2020, but he also endorsed the 45th President in 2016. “Nobody reported it because nobody thought he could win at the time,” said Jones, while also reminding National File that he endorsed President George W. Bush and was the first Georgian to introduce him as the 43rd President in the state after Bush won the 2000 election.

He suggested that criticism of his party affiliation, too, was racially motivated. “He’s playing to people’s fears, he’s using race to play to the base’s fears,” said Jones. “It almost makes you want to think, which I’ve heard others say too and I’m beginning to hear it more and more, it’s like they are afraid of blacks becoming Republicans.” Jones said that other former Democrats, like President Trump, did not receive the same level of scrutiny when they became Republicans.

Peters seemed bemused when informed of Jones’ previous relationship with Bush. “If he wants to tout introducing George W. Bush as President for the first time, look at George W. Bush,” said Peters. “He is the face of the deep state cabal. He is a warmongering elitist, probably one of the most fiscally irresponsible presidents in our history, and is not a representation of America First or conservatism.”

“Vernon Jones is a Clinton Democrat and the GOP is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Georgians, and so is he, his Telegram videos are completely unauthentic,” added Peters, referencing a video released by Jones.

“Look at the beautiful cotton fields down here,” said Jones, revealing a scene with a John Deere tractor in the foreground alongside an American flag and a cotton field and trees in the background. “Let me tell you something, I love farmers. I’m a country boy, I’m a farmer. When I see this John Deere tractor, I just love it.” He proceeded to sit on the tractor.

“Feel the Vern,” said Jones as the video ends. Jones began to leave the tractor, but the camera man keeps filming until he says, “Alright.”

While speaking to National File, Jones seemed to suggest the information Peters referenced in the interview may have been given to the radio host by Jones’ political enemies, including famous lawyer Lin Wood, who is backing Kandiss Taylor in the Georgia gubernatorial election.

Speaking to National File, Peters noted that he is now supporting Taylor in the race, and described her as “the exact representation of what real Americans want.” Peters added, “Taylor is the quintessential image of a government by, for and of the people.” Jones described Taylor as a long shot candidate, and pundits as well as Tea Party activists in Georgia seem to agree.

“It’s past time we get over this nonsense of electing representatives funded by special interests and big donors,” said Peters. “The media industrial complex is making people believe Taylor is not electable.” Peters continued, “Why are we even having that conversation, of course she can, because she’s not corrupt.”

National File spoke to Lin Wood and questioned him about his potential involvement in the story. Wood explicitly denied having any involvement or concrete knowledge of the allegations levied against Jones, but said it would have been impossible as a lawyer practicing in Georgia not to hear rumors of Jones’ sexual escapades and, less recently, the court case against him in the early 2000s. Still, Wood said he learned of how the trial ended from Peters’ reporting, and declared himself a “Stew Peters fan.”

Wood told National File that he, too, was accused of racism by Jones after questioning how the candidate made his money.

“I had a question about Vernon’s finances,” Wood told National File. “How did he get to be a multi-millionaire when he spent 30 years in politics by his own admission? How much does CEO of DeKalb County pay?” Wood says Jones replied that Wood was un-American, to which Wood responded, “That doesn’t wash, I don’t think anybody’s going to believe that one.”According to Wood, the candidate also accused him of making his money illegally, which he strictly denied, noting his high profile legal victories.

Then, “he accused me of being a racist,” said Wood. “There is not a racist bone in my body,” Wood declared, stressing the sentence.

“What I’ve generally found from my faith is that when somebody falsely accuses you, they are the person guilty of the false accusation,” Wood told National File. “Meaning, with Vernon, with respect to me,” Wood added, “He’s the one that is a racist.”

After the interview, Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers retracted her endorsement of Jones in a statement mentioning Wood. “In light of this information revealed on the Stew Peters Show, and other information that I know will be coming out, I am withdrawing my endorsement of Vernon Jones for Georgia Governor,” wrote Rogers. “Lin Wood was right and I should have listened to my brother in Christ.”

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